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EFFORTPOST Post-Mortem Repositioning of Human Bodies in Fires (Images are edited to keep their identity unknown)

One of the indicators forensic fire investigators try to use in the reconstruction of fatal fires is interpreting the position of a burned body and its limbs in a fire scene. Both scene investigators and forensic pathologists have attempted to reconstruct the final moments of the victim's life by examining the remains – sometimes as the remains are documented at the scene, but often after recovery, removal, transport, and delivery to the morgue. These later processes can alter or even destroy badly burned remains to such a state that any interpretation is guesswork. Even more distressing is the lack of empirical knowledge about the effects of fire on a body during an actual fire.

Because very few forensic personnel have ever watched a deceased body burn in a fire and with such limited empirical data, it is not surprising that much of the attempted reconstruction is guesswork and misinterpretation. The annual Forensic Fire Death Investigation Course (FFDIC) has been offered in San Luis Obispo, California since 2008. The field exercise of this unique course involves the preparation of 10 to 12 different fire scenes in which one or two un-embalmed human cadavers are exposed to each fire. The events include structure (room and contents) fires – often to flashover and beyond. Others include road-side dumps and vehicle body disposal. Some fires are brief in duration – 10-20 minutes – some involve 6-8 hours of fire exposure.

A variety of fire scenarios is created each year for the FFDIC course by the instructors to give the students exposure to different fire scene conditions. These can range from body disposals in burning automobiles, to roadside dumps fueled by brush, wood pallets, tires, and trash), to furnished rooms ignited by a number of different mechanisms to recreate both accidental and intentional fires. The rooms were purpose-built using wood studs and gypsum wallboard wall- and ceiling coverings. The furniture and clothing was obtained second-hand from local donation centers. Each room or vehicle was fitted with thermocouples to record temperatures (with one usually placed in the center of the upper torso to record internal body temperatures). Un-embalmed human cadavers refrigerated at near 0°C, were dressed and positioned in various positions suitable for the scenario. It was necessary to use un-embalmed cadavers since the embalming process hardens the tissues, preventing their normal reaction to heat.

The cadavers were obtained by the Medical Education and Research Institute,(MERI), Memphis, TN as specified donations and provided to the San Luis Obispo County Sheriff -Coroner Office in accordance with applicable medical ethical guidelines for use in the FFDIC class only. At the end of the course, the remains were resealed in their original body bags and transported back to MERI for cremation.


Test 1: Sustained fire on bed in small cubicle. Body of elderly male adult, dressed in cotton sweat shirt and pants on modern box spring, covered with cotton blanket. Body in supine position with legs extended straight and arms by sides. Fire ignited with open flame to paper at edge of blanket. Brief flashover fire. Fire duration was 7 hours (self-extinguished).

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/kyar9n0j.jpg

Fig.1 Test 1: Sustained fire on bed. Body of elderly male adult, dressed in cotton sweat shirt and pants on modern box spring, covered with cotton blanket. Body in supine position with legs extended straight and arms by sides. Fire ignited with open flame to paper at edge of blanket. Fire duration was 7 hrs (self-extinguished).

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/ts174c8x.jpg

Fig.2 Test 1: At 16min, the right arm is raising at the elbow and the legs are flexing upward due to flexing of the knees.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/q5fwp1f0.jpg

Fig.3 Test 1: At 21min, right arm is raised. Fingers are disarticulated.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/g4dp4o.jpg

Fig.4 Test 1: After self-extinguishment at 7hrs, both arms are flexed at shoulders and elbows. Hands are in a very different position than at the start.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/1r4o57m.jpg

Fig.5 Test 1: The feet are disarticulated, the knees are flexed outward. The left femur was broken mechanically before the fire and it is in an upright position to the body.


Test 2: Sustained fire on bed in small cubicle. Body of elderly male adult in supine position on modern box spring, dressed in cotton sweatshirt and pants and covered with a cotton blanket. Arms at sides, legs straight. Fire ignited in paper under edge of blanket at shoulder. Brief flashover fire. Fire duration was 6.25 hrs (self-extinguished).

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/byz5u4t.jpg

Fig.6 Test 2: Sustained fire in bed. Body of elderly male adult in supine position on modern box spring, dressed in cotton sweatshirt and pants and covered with a cotton blanket. Arms at sides, legs straight. Fire ignited in paper under edge of blanket at shoulder.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/ardw88wa.jpg

Fig.7 Test 2: At 1hr:16min, the modest fire in the box spring and blanket are causing the fingers of the right hand to flex downward (towards the heat).

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/izakb30.jpg

Fig.8 Test 2: At 1hr:55min, there is a substantial fire in the box spring and a pool fire supported by the body fat that has rendered out and gathered on the gypsum wallboard floor covering beneath the torso. Fingers clenched but intact, arm is raised from the shoulder and elbow.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/q4a7dgks.jpg

Fig.9 Test 2: At 2hrs:15min, the fire is localized on the body and the pool fire beneath it. The right arm has collapsed outward.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/kifl9vv9.jpg

Fig.10 Test 2: After self-extinguishment at 6hrs:15min, the full extent of repositioning can be seen. The left arm is extended out at right angle from the body and the bones heavily calcined and fragmented. The right arm extended out away from the body and is still relatively intact. The knees are flexed outward (legs in a plie ballet position).


Test 3: Open (three-sided) cubicle fire with two bodies. One body (previously exposed to a low intensity fire) on bed, other slumped in chair. Fire started in paper trash between body and chair. Fire went to flashover at about 7min, post-flashover burning for 13 more minutes (total fire duration was 20 min).

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/8mb2d0ba.jpg

Fig.11 Test 3: Open cubicle fire with two bodies. One body (previously exposed to a low intensity fire) on bed, other slumped in chair. Fire started in paper trash between body and chair. Fire went to flashover at about 7min, post-flashover burning for 13 more minutes (total fire duration was 20 min.)

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/nwm9zlpv.jpg

Fig.12 Test 3: Body on mattress displays extensive destruction of soft tissue on arms (hands disarticulated), head tilted back, and arms and legs in different positions than at start of the fire.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/devun31d.jpg

Fig.13 Test 3: At 6min, the fingers of the right hand are splayed outward and the body is twisting to the right. The torso is moving towards the fire as muscles shrink from heat exposure.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/8l1b9y64.jpg

Fig.14 Test 3: Radiant heat during flashover has caused significant loss of soft tissue from the front of the torso, arms, and legs. Head tilted back (due to shrinkage of muscles at back of neck.) Legs spread apart.


Test 4: Bed fire in furnished cubicle. Adult male body in supine position with legs straight and arms slightly extended. Fire started on bed. Total duration: 13min (including flashover).

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/a0ulheg4.jpg

Fig.15 Test 4: Bed fire. Adult male body in supine position with legs straight and arms slightly extended. Fire started on bed. Total duration: 13min (including flashover).

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/c243sjr.jpg

Fig.16 Test 4: Post-flashover: right arm extended out from shoulder. Legs spread. Right leg is nearly off bed. Collapse of bedsprings is aiding movement towards edge.


Test 5: Airplane crash (into adjoining room). Body on bed ignited by fire extending from crash. One arm at side, right arm across chest, legs skewed. Fire duration in room: 15.5 min.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/6b42yuod.jpg

Fig.17 Test 5: Airplane crash (into adjoining room). Body on bed ignited by fire extending from crash. One arm at side, right arm across chest, legs skewed.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/f8ezj04g.jpg

Fig.18 Test 5: After 15.5min fire in room, left arm is extended above head, right arm is by side. Lower legs bent at knees, lower extremities disarticulated.


Test 6: Open (3-sided) cubicle – two bodies – one on bed inside cubicle, one in recliner chair outside facing fire. Body of nude adult male on bed in supine position, legs extended arms at sides. Second body seated in recliner. Duration of cubicle fire: 15min.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/hnbgg0cn.jpg

Fig.19 Test 6A: Open cubicle – two bodies – one on bed inside cubicle, one in recliner outside facing fire. Body of nude adult male in supine position, legs extended, arms at sides.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/dxhlyk7a.jpg

Fig.20 Test 6A: 15min. Subcutaneous fat exposed on torso and legs. Right arm extended out over edge of bed from shoulder. Right leg extended out over edge of bed. Left leg bent at knee. Intense fire on bed but did not proceed to flashover (carpet and wall still intact). Mattress collapse aiding movement towards edge.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/1ohtvj3e.jpg

Fig.21 Test 6B: Body in recliner. Starting position.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/ap4sfhm2.jpg

Fig.22 Test 6B: Fire on recliner ignited at 8min by radiant heat from cubicle fire. Hands and forearms raised and fingers splayed. Head turning towards fire, feet curling towards fire as tendons and muscles in sole shrink from heat.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/6fzct2f6.jpg

Fig.23 Test 6B: After fire, left arm crossed across body, legs splayed, feet disarticulated. Position of body changed by collapse of chair beneath.


Test 7: Furnished cubicle – body in bed. Clothed, adult body on bed, supine position, legs straight, arms at sides. Duration 24 min including flashover.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/bgu8abmw.jpg

Fig.24 Test 7: Furnished cubicle – body in bed. Adult body on bed, supine position, legs straight, arms at sides.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/k6xa8xms.jpg

Fig.25 Test 7: 24min including post-flashover. Both arms extended well away from body and straightened. Legs spread but straight. Feet disarticulated.


Test 8: Furnished cubicle. Bedroom fire (accelerated with gasoline on bed): murder- suicide.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/ty5pgsnm.jpg

Fig.26 Test 8: Furnished cubicle. Bedroom fire (accelerated with gasoline on bed): murder- suicide. Test 8A: Adult male on bed, dressed and covered with comforter, arms and legs straight (skin slippage from minor post- mortem decomposition). Gunshot wounds to torso.


Test 8A: Adult male on bed, dressed and covered with comforter, arms and legs straight (skin slippage from minor post-mortem decomposition). Gunshot wounds to torso.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/rp9wc5vc.jpg

Fig.27 Test 8A: Duration 7.5min (3.5min post-flashover). Right arm extended out over edge of bed, right leg moved towards edge, both legs spread and flexed at knees.


Test 8B: Clothed female body slumped in corner with gunshot wound to the head. Total duration: 7.5min, 3.5min post-flashover.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/rbbu1rj8.jpg

Fig.28 Test 8B: Same cubicle – female assailant (clothed). Gunshot wound to head. Initial position.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/lw01nmth.jpg

Fig.29 Test 8B: Corner of room ignited by flashover at 4min. Head and upper torso protected by corner position. Subcutaneous fat exposed on legs. Arms repositioned towards walls, legs spread.


Fig.29 Test 8B: Corner of room ignited by flashover at 4min. Head and upper torso protected by corner position. Subcutaneous fat exposed on legs. Arms repositioned towards walls, legs spread.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/aza9whgc.jpg

Fig.30 Test 9: Open cubicle – body on bed. Clothed, adult female body on top bunk. Ignition by open flame to bedclothes. Flashover within 1min.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/70ku8be.jpg

Fig.31 Test 9: Both legs flexed, both arms extended from shoulders and flexed. Neck arched back.*


Test 10: Open cubicle with latex foam mattresses. Body supine in bed. Fire ignited by open flame. Flashover within 1 min. Second clothed adult male body seated in recliner facing the fire. Recliner ignited by radiant heat from cubicle fire. Total duration: 7min.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/qqrdjn8b.jpg

Fig.32 Test 10: Body in recliner. Initial position: adult male, clothed

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/eldywjle.jpg

Fig.33 Test 10: Fire ignited on recliner by radiant heat from cubicle flashover fire at 1min. Head and arm rising and head turning towards the fire.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/5bebput.jpg

Fig.34 Test 10: Duration of recliner fire: 8min. Both legs and arms extended. Neck arched back. Mouth open.


Test 11: Tent fire. Adult female body clothed in sweatshirt and pants, supine on innerspring mattress. Blankets, clothes, and towels on mattress in a plastic camping tent. Ignition was by cigarette on cotton bedding (at feet). Arms at sides, legs straight and together. Duration of flaming fire: 20min, with rapid consumption of tent material.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/3qnmaks.jpg

Fig.35 Test 11: Tent fire. Adult female body clothed in sweatshirt and pants supine on a spring mattress. Ignition by cigarette on cotton bedding (at feet). Arms at sides, legs straight and together. Duration of flaming fire 20min.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/uti1p6ok.jpg

Fig.36 Test 11: After removal of tent and debris, body was left on inner spring mattress for removal. Arms flexed and rose. Legs straight but spread. Lower legs more badly damaged due to longer duration of fire in adjacent normal combustibles.


Test 12: Open furnished cubicle. Adult male body, clothed, in supine position on innerspring mattress on improvised wood support. Ignition by open flame to combustibles. Duration of fire: approximately 12 min with sustained flashover. The wood support and mattress collapsed during the fire. After the fire, the body was found in supine position on floor, adjacent to the bed.

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/t9oi90dw.jpg

Fig.37 Test 12: This adult male body was in a supine position on the innerspring mattress during a demonstration fire in a furnished cubicle. During the fire, the mattress collapsed and the body ended up in a supine position on the floor adjacent to the bed.


Pugilistic posturing in deceased bodies is the combined result of shrinkage and loss of connective tissues (muscles, tendons, and ligaments) at joints resulting from the thermal effects of heat and fire, not from ante-mortem actions of the victim. It can be extensive or very limited depending on the position of the body and the distribution of the heat applied. Flexion is dominated by shrinkage on the side facing the fire or radiant heat source. Hands and bare feet curl; wrists, hips, knees and ankles flex. Heads turn and necks arch. Such flexion may indicate the direction of fire spread if the fire is not prolonged. Limbs can rise, flex, and straighten during the fire, sometimes sequentially.

Flexion of small joints with thin tissue coverings (fingers and wrists) can begin within five minutes of intense heat exposure. The thicker the protective layer of soft tissues, the longer the delay will be. Significant flexion can move entire limbs. If the movement of arms and legs is sufficient and is accompanied by collapse of chair upholstery or bedsprings, the body may be found in a very different position than it was when the fire began. Investigators must be aware of such movement before concluding the victim was responding voluntarily to the fire.

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Imagine your body is donated to science and your family sees your body burnt to a crisp laying on a recliner

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you only die once!

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YODO. I'm stealing that.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/OYA8BsNWrEbqo/giphy.webp

After looking at those photos. I think I might have ribs for dinner tonight.

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I legit feel bad saying this but looks like bbq

(please upvote so i can access chat im bored alone in here)

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this is a very interesting study,, it makes sense that the fire would dry all of the moisture from the tendons and make the limbs move,, this would be an interesting study to partake in :flamethrower2:

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Appreciate it <3

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it's a very good cause to donate your body to science.. obviously. no matter how obscene it looks, there's beauty in knowing that even in death you still have purpose.

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You think small. Don't need your corpse to be cut up to have purpose after death.

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"Steve, the morgue is full of unclaimed corpses! What're we gonna do now?!" :marseyveryworried:

steve:

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:marseylaughpoundfist::marseylaughpoundfist::marseylaughpoundfist::marseylaughpoundfist:

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https://media.giphy.com/media/10n0ZGxqeFBssw/giphy.webp

As any true BBQ aficionado would tell you this study is somewhat unnecessary and somewhat shallow and pedantic hmmm. Just ask any guy that's made some good brisket "what will this do if I put it in fire for such and such time?" If he doesn't nail it, he'll at least be in the same ballpark. I wonder if they ever thought to surround the bodies with apple wood or hickory wood just for aesthetic purposes 🤷 it wouldn't necessarily alter the burn time on the bodies, just smell better for the students.

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Holy fuck, you weren't joking about effort posting something. Good on you, this is awesome.

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Thank you twilight, i appreciate that a lot :3

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No but why does this actually look kinda fire :marseyflamewar:

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:marseylaugh:

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Thank you so much for your post kitty, I love reading this type of investigations and we appreciate the amount of information. :marseykissinger:

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https://media.tenor.com/r9wV_fLQPmwAAAAC/will-smith-thats-hot.gif

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Excellent post.

Makes me kinda wish I got a forensics degree.

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That was very interesting, i had no idea the arms automatically are drawn to that classic burn person position, but I think they pretty much got all the answers to their burning questions from the first one or two roasts, i think the rest of them were just torched for fun of it. Flame on.!!

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The most useless study I've ever wasted time reading.

https://media.giphy.com/media/s239QJIh56sRW/giphy.webp

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Cool !

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Watching a channel on YouTube about the clean ups they do from scenes is fucking horrific man!

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Informative, interesting. Thanks for posting.

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very high quality post, upvote given

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The amount of information and detail in this study is great. You should consider doing more varying posts on forensical education courses and their summarized dealings. I think this would make for fascinating content lomg term if thats where your passion is.

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nice knowledge, thank for the gurus lay in there, Rest in peace

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Really cool post

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Could've saved themselves all the work and just hung out at a Pitmasters brisket shop and ate real good and just watched a man cook brisket all day and take notes on that. You'd see the bodies curl up and the fat burn, plus you could eat em after, WITHOUT all your coworkers pulling you back like "NO NO!!! YOU SAID YOUD STOP STEEVE!, YOU PROMISED!"

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Based Kitty most hardcore chick on WPD!

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Pove you cartman!!

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Thought you called me poor for a second but it was just a typo obviously LOL I love you too Kitty!

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BAH SORRY IM ON MY PHONE!

I love uuu

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It's a great day to be alive live it up my girl!

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Yas you too!!!

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I still got beer and weed left life is being kind to me right now life is good!!!! STAY LIT EVERYDAY!

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WOOP WOOP, I GOT MY MEDS AND MY CIGS. WOOPWOOP LIT

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Meds and cigs damn good combo, I mix in a lil tobacco with my weed to keep out the drowsy effects!

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More comments

https://media.giphy.com/media/8H4BFnRFNlAGY/giphy.webp

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Very interesting, well done.

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I thought the first pic was a viking dragon boat funeral

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FIRST IM FIRST MOMMY

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Thank you ! <3

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These are so awesome, thanks for including so many too! Great post

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Omg my ass thought the first pic was the loch Ness monster🤦‍♀️😭

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https://i.watchpeopledie.tv/images/16962744344818518.webp

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"I had a dream about a burning house. You were stuck inside, I couldn't get you out"

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:marseyexcited: Jesus, the amount of tests made.

Now we need to test on beyond redeemable inmates to figure it out, of course for studies, lol.

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I miss the african tire test :parrotevil:

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Very nice effort post :marseythumbsup:

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nice detail

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I prefer them cooked medium-rare.

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HL2 dev's: hehe boy :marseytwerking:

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Very good post.

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Uhhh idk if this is postmortem I think this is just people burning bodies for fun

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Imagine my surprise when I hear you're from that bunch of idle, indolent, slothful, work-shy, shiftless, loafing, inactive, inert, sluggish, lethargic, languorous, listless, torpid, enervated, slow, dull, plodding, remiss, negligent, slack, lax, lackadaisical, impassive, good-for-nothing, do-nothings.

Snapshots:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/kyar9n0j.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/ts174c8x.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/q5fwp1f0.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/g4dp4o.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/1r4o57m.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/byz5u4t.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/ardw88wa.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/izakb30.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/q4a7dgks.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/kifl9vv9.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/8mb2d0ba.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/nwm9zlpv.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/devun31d.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/8l1b9y64.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/a0ulheg4.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/c243sjr.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/6b42yuod.jpg:

https://pomf2.lain.la/f/f8ezj04g.jpg:

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Looks like a totally worthless test....

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its what happens when people donate their bodies to science

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Something seems off. There are photos that don't make sense, and seem to be AI generated. Look at fingers and toes and you can see some blurry effects that meld them together.

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Nigga r u fr orr?

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Uh . . . I don't understand what you're trying to say. Try a structured sentence.

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They are not AI generated ... LMAO. You need to grow up seriously if you think that, the photos are bad quality due to how old the tests are. I would never post fake gore LMFAO

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You're a fucking retard and a liar. It's VERY easy to see straight through the bull.

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I am not lying LOL , i found the images on another website, by a VERY WELL KNOWN creator. I HIGHLY doubt they are AI generated . ALL I know is that the images are edited to not show the peoples faces and their identifying marks

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https://i.watchpeopledie.tv/images/1696121569820985.webp

Again I want an answer on how this person has extra fingers growing from the inside of their palm/fingers.

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Are you seriously this fucking dense? I counted 5 fingers on each hand. Are you confused by the positioning of the left hand (one closest to you sweetie)? Or are you just this bad at trolling?

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If you would read what i said , THE IMAGES ARE NOT MINE. THEY ARE SAID TO OF BEEN EDITED TO KEEP THE VICTIMS FACES UNKNOWN .

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Well, just so you know. These pics are generated images. There are loads of issues with them and I suggest you watch a video on how to spot AI generated images.

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Oh, so I understand. You're asking me if I am "for real" about seeing right through bullshit. Well, yes I am for real about that. Every single one of the images has horrible interpolation, blending, and things running of into other things.

https://i.watchpeopledie.tv/images/1696121193699913.webp

The fuck is wrong with this dudes hand? WHY do they have an extra set of fingers sprouting out from the other fingers? These inconsisitincies are easy to locate in every single image. Every last one of these images are generated by AI.

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Jesus christ you stupid fuck. The palm is facing up, therefore, the fucking fingers face up. I know i know im a friggen whiz kid!

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I took a long, hard look at this image and I'm afraid that you're wrong about the body having "extra fingers." The left hand has their thumb and index finger extended and the other three fingers are bent.

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What are you talking about "extra fingers"? There are 4 fingers and a thumb...that's how many typical human hands have, my dude...

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When I catch fresh "cats" out of the lake and fry them up, the fillet will curl in the frying pan. 30 min. post hammer to the skull. lol. their little hearts will beat for hours after.

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Damn, bro. That was so cool and edgy. Can I get your autograph?

https://media.giphy.com/media/ggDy5NyLc8w0ZZPGFe/giphy.webp

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